Curse

Karlos · Nov 21, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

The anonymity of the Internet brings out the worst in people. The game is not radically different than chat rooms and online forums.

Gen Saver · Nov 21, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

these days it's the same problem with most, if not all multiplayer games
huge difference between today and 5-10 years ago when broadband internet was getting available for everybody

=HT=Ingram · Nov 21, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Then they start throwing the N & G words around to make themselves feel superior... When they are just playing a blame game for their own inadequates and homophobia...

And not the N word many are thinking of, I mean the Provoking N word that is N00b. That every one of us was at one point or another, and throwing it anyones face acting all superior just shows what jerks people are. If you can't act civilly in a game, well.. Take a look at the world today. and You see what you get. A bunch of self centered egotistical bigoting fools that have nothing better to do then sit around insulting others online, cause no one can stand them or would give them the time of day in real life.

Is it any wonder people are reluctant to play with PUGs at all anymore? Why would anyone want to be playing with such people that will just as likely shove a knife in your back as look at you. Just because they want to cause someone trouble. anyone, they don't care who, cause everyone else has abandoned them to this the 20th circle of hell that is PUGreifers.

the_jos · Nov 21, 2006, 04:04 PM // 16:04

I'd like to add some words to this 'discussion'.

I've played most of the weekend (not green farming, just had some spare time).
During early morning and late evening (Europe), I had no problems at all.
But between 11:00 and 21:00, I hardly PuG-ed and the ones I did where not all enjoyable.
Lots of rushing and some name calling.

I've seen this before and the only reason I can think of is that those are the times the kids are online.
After 21:00, most of the PuG's I join don't cause any problems and I don't see many harsh words in the outposts.

It's also true that people tend to behave more rude online as in real life, but that is not the general GW problem in my opinion.

Antheus · Nov 21, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

GW has horrible community, one considerably worse than even the notorious WoW. It actually surprised me during WoW trial. I was expecting horrible behaviour, but the overall experience was by several degrees better.

In GW there is no moderation. Reporting someone takes several minutes, and actions taken are far and few in between.

There are no GMs, there is no way to do anything about people breaking the rules. In trade chat accounts get sold daily, not just for GW, but other games. Racial slurs are matter of public chat, profanities of any degree are the norm.

Add to that the overall behaviour, and the picture is clear. There is nothing whatsoever to fear in GW, since the probability of action getting taken against you is almost zero. Say the (bad) N word to someone in WoW, and you can get a GM in under a minute.

This has gotten much worse since the heroes were introduced. Now players no longer need to behave just in case they might need a group. They can do anything they want, and never require a PUG anymore. This breaks the last social interdependancy, so why bother.

Insults, discrimination, intolerance, all in the days work. "I henched the entire game, you are all just noobs, who cares what you think".

star firefly · Nov 21, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

And not the N word many are thinking of, I mean the Provoking N word that is N00b. That every one of us was at one point or another, and throwing it anyones face acting all superior just shows what jerks people are.

Exactly. Not to mention those who draw penises or F word on the map. And once I had a "pleasure" to be called by this F word after opening a gate to Rurik in Ruins of Surmia mission. Apparently a teenage monk wanted to do char farming, without even bothering herself (himself?) telling about it to others. Come one, this is SO extremely childish that even children don't act like this.

tomcruisejr · Nov 21, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

@tomcruisejr who's that on your avatar? Looks familiar- just curious. -Thx

Tina Weymouth of The Talking Heads

Calen The Civl · Nov 21, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

If I catch my kids being vulgar in town (or mission) like I've heard in some towns, I'll personally whallop them! Don't care if they are 23 and 19

.

I remember a couple months ago popping into Shing Jea and there was someone with a real potty-mouth. It was just uncalled for, so I mentioned something about the 12 year-olds needing to be taught manners. (I usually don't bother commenting unless they're trying to swindle a new player). The kid promptly whispered and informed me that he was NOT a 12 year old, thank you very much! He was all of -- 13! Oh, well, that makes all the difference. *rolls eyes*

Yeah, I have had similar replies when I mention something about manners to rude players scamming others.

Vulgarity is tolerable but the increase of racial slurs is not. I have even seen a few white supremacy guilds out there.

Perhaps the developers could give special sanction to a few respectable guilds to enforce some type of punishment or police system. These guilds would generate a log for the company to review to avoid power abuse and also have a special cape to designate them from other guilds. It would at least remove some of the burden of moderation.

It sounds like there is quite a few players who have some of their fun leeched away by such nonsense.

Lordhelmos · Nov 21, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

I can care less, I play heros now. Guildwars is no longer a Cooperative RPG for :P

leprekan · Nov 21, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calen The Civl

Yeah, I have had similar replies when I mention something about manners to rude players scamming others.

Vulgarity is tolerable but the increase of racial slurs is not. I have even seen a few white supremacy guilds out there.

Perhaps the developers could give special sanction to a few respectable guilds to enforce some type of punishment or police system. These guilds would generate a log for the company to review to avoid power abuse and also have a special cape to designate them from other guilds. It would at least remove some of the burden of moderation.

It sounds like there is quite a few players who have some of their fun leeched away by such nonsense.

Nice idea but it wouldn't work. Anet would have to pay someone to look at log files ... don't see that happening. It would lead to abuse no matter what guild was babysitting. Not to sound like a negative Nancy .. because I have thought the same thing over the last 18 months. They won't pay someone to run their own forum they sure as hell won't pay for someone to babysit.

Thorinfire · Nov 21, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Bah

Just turn off the local and trade chats unless you need to do something. And stop pugging, play with guildies or heros only.

Ya it kind of defeats the purpose of CORPG BUT without an audience the 12 er 13 year old

will grow weary of his antics with time.

Dont encourage or recognize piss poor behavior in any way shape or form.

arcady · Nov 21, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

because if they did, it will still be farmed and bought with gold or abused and defeats the purpose of its intent.

Anyways threads like this complaining about the lack of morals/bad behaviour of others on the internet or in online games is nothing new and moot really.

People react in game -worse- than they do in physical reality. In game they react as they think and feel rather than as they do for sake of avoiding public conflict.

All the racism, sexism, and other isms come out when the anonymity makes them feel that both:
1. They can get away with it.
2. The people they talk to are 'like them' / 'agree with them'.

On #2... online people can't see each other, so they fail to label each other as 'acting like an X' (where X is some other race, sex, political party, religion, etc). Instead they assume the other people, who are 'acting normally' (as they always do anyway), must be like them - normal...

(You can even see this in these forums, where words such as 'normal' and 'like us' are used to describe Tyria and words like 'too dark', 'look evil', 'wide nosed', 'exotic' and so on are used to describe Elona... or 'no American could feel at home' for Cantha...
... and even in game outside of speech with the overwelming presence of pale and blond characters... disproportionate to the settings...
... showing a very strong level of 'majority race' racism in the American GW community)

Back to topic... once they falsely assume the others 'must be like them', they let out their true opinions.

Your getting not just 'how the Xs talk when the Ys aren't around, but how they talk when they think the other Xs with them agree with them' - because they can't see the others and so can't falsely assume that people act a certain way because of their type. Failing that false assumption, they fall back on another false assumption: Because nobody is acting 'funny, like a Y', they must all be Xs.

And the rest of us get to watch in shock as the various kinds of bigots reveal their 'hooded-robed inner selves' that we fail to notice when we deal with them everyday in person (unless we are, as myself, racial minorities, who are targets of their hostility and so get it from them even when they conceal it with regards to the public sphere[*]).
[*] This can be worse for me because I have an unusual appearance that leads people to be unsure of my race, so at times I get people talking to me about my background failing to realize they are talking about my type, and at other times I get people talking to me negatively about what they think is my background failing to realize that I might be in common with them - in part or whole. The way people talk on GW is what I see everytime I'm in a group of people who mistake what I am...

Pepsi Jedi · Nov 21, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

I've not had any real bad instances in the game. I had a guy chase me around one of the towns one time and kept putting his character infront of mine to dance any time I tried to talk to somone. The text is pretty small and some guy dancing around while you're trying to read it can be distracting. I asked him to quit and he was all like 'This is a public game. I can dance the nasty if I want"

So I just changed districts. Not that bad.

I've seen some people being rude to other people, but.. sadly they seem to give as good as they get. You can't really complain that somone calls you a name when you light um up right back.

Now... off the game. Here. I've seen rather deplorable behavior. LOTS of people casting stones. It's not so much "You're a ____ " But the condesending attitude. If somone asks a question or says they have a problem with something 20 posters have to get on and be like "It was easy for me, you must not know what you're doing GAW!"
Or even worse. People that can't get though certain missions or are having problems with them are riticuled and put down. Made to feel stupid.

I'll admit. I've had a few missions where I've had problems and haven't asked for help here for just that reason. I don't need to read thouth 40 people telling me how easy the mission is and how useless I am for the 1 guy that'll pop up and give helpful advice.

Again.. it's not DIRECT insults. it's not name calling.. but it's the attitude and feeling here that gets to me sometimes. I've been online since 96 pretty much every day baring sickness, and the .... "mood" on this board is one of if not THE poorest I've ever been privy to.

And yeah. I could just leave. That's always an option. I realize that, but I DO wade though the bad to get to the good. It's to the extent now that I just tend to auto filter out the diverseive and insulting posts (( Unless directly aimed at me. lol))As simple background noise.

People will be people though. Sadly with no way to literly smack somone in the mouth. Some people will run off at the mouth.

It's not as satisfying but do realize that the sort of people that are mean and condesending and racist and sexists in videogames... are the little wussies that arn't brave enough to do so in real life. I mean... is there anything more cowardly than useing a COMPUTER GAME to sprout out hate messages? No matter whom they're aimed at?

I've not been witness to any racist stuff in game as mentioned by more than one post here. If it happens that's bad but giving creedence to it and freaking out is exactly what those small minds want. Words can't hurt you. Words from some guy sitting in his moms basement typing racal slurs really can't. Just ignore them. As soon as they stop getting the rise out of folks they'll mosy on to the next "Thing" to try there.

Yes... ignoring morons is tedious and very UNsatisfying.. but freaking out just gives them exactly what they're looking for.

arcady · Nov 21, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

As a flip side to my last post, two counter observations:

GW has little to no online moderation. Given that, predictions would say it should much worse than it is. Somehow, it remains mostly decent.
I've posted elsewhere (in Monk threads) about the 'rule of 1 in negativity' - 1 bad example makes a whole category of people look bad to outsiders. It is not that there are hordes of bad players in GW, it is that a few bad apples can make us all look bad, even to each other. -I-, as in a generic player, am less likely to want to deal with -you-, as in another generic player, after seeing some other 'them' who was so rude, racist, sexist, etc-ist.' Forming a negative bias is a lot easier than forming a positive one.

I, again as a generic I and not just the actual me, will remember the one bad player who insulted me or was rude in local chat much longer than the 99 others in the district who said nothing, did nothing, who I did not meet in any way, or even who were nice to me.

That is just human nature. We remember bad experiences more than lack of experience or even good experience...

When thinking of the GW community, we have to struggle to keep this in mind, and try and count how many people are in a district when you find a jerk, and list them all in your mind as -not jerks- save for that one (or group) who was/were.

Griff Mon · Nov 21, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

What gets me is when they use trick spelling to get their foul diatribe through the chat filter. Spacing between l e t t e r s or substituting "ph" for "f" so we are sure to get the message.

leprekan · Nov 21, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Considering many of us would rather chew off our own leg instead of do a pug FoW perhaps the heroes are Anets way of saying sorry parents suck at minding their children.

Former Ruling · Nov 21, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

The Internet is truly an awesome place huh.

I use it to my advantage too, where else can a 19 yr old act like a 10 yr old and that be the norm

Dalimoor_Kalkire · Nov 21, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

The Internet is truly an awesome place huh.

I use it to my advantage too, where else can a 19 yr old act like a 10 yr old and that be the norm

How utterly depressing to see the truth in this post...

Chieftain Heavyhand · Nov 21, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Maybe the use of heroes and henchmen could explain this. The mature players are playing the game while the immature players are setting in town bickering about B.S.

Maybe if Anet would implement Karma into the game no one would bother listening to some jerk with negative 1035000 karma. This of course would be voted and decided by the populous of the game, easy +1-1 karma only one vote per person per hour. Just so people couldn't rapidly change their karma. That would quickly ostracize jerks, cons, scammers, bots, babies and quitters in game.

Our Guild has rules about inappropriate and offensive behavior. On the other hand a little ribbing doesn't hurt this is a game don't take some of this junk to serious. If the trolls would play instead of running their yelp the game would be allot better and we wouldn't have to rely on Heroes and henchmen.

Arri · Nov 21, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

I believe a game called maple story had a system like this, it was easily abused by people to get back at something by getting all their guildies/friends to defame one person forever...

I can only hope PuG people don't get their guildies/friends to constantly give -karma (or is +karma bad?) to some monk that wasn't keeping everyone at full health 24/7